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	<title>Comments on: Campus Plan Update: ANC Special Meeting</title>
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	<description>The Georgetown Voice Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Vox Populi » Petition started to oppose recent noise law amendment</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503893</link>
		<dc:creator>Vox Populi » Petition started to oppose recent noise law amendment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2011 14:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Students Speak, a student-run advocacy group that was behind the petition in support of the 2010 Campus Plan, has created a petition opposing the recently amended D.C. noise [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Students Speak, a student-run advocacy group that was behind the petition in support of the 2010 Campus Plan, has created a petition opposing the recently amended D.C. noise [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On-campus housing not the answer for Georgetown University &#124; DC Students Speak</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503516</link>
		<dc:creator>On-campus housing not the answer for Georgetown University &#124; DC Students Speak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Nevils Hall. In 2011, CAG President Jennifer Altemus reminisced about her time as an undergraduate living in Nevils — while opposing the construction of University housing literally across the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nevils Hall. In 2011, CAG President Jennifer Altemus reminisced about her time as an undergraduate living in Nevils — while opposing the construction of University housing literally across the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vox Populi » Both 2010 Campus Plan petitions have significant flaws</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503456</link>
		<dc:creator>Vox Populi » Both 2010 Campus Plan petitions have significant flaws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 2010 Campus Plan, D.C. Students Speak—an advocacy group for students in the District—presented a petition to the commissioners in support of the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2010 Campus Plan, D.C. Students Speak—an advocacy group for students in the District—presented a petition to the commissioners in support of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: just one thought</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503444</link>
		<dc:creator>just one thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Moose and Eileen for such reasonable arguments.

As a student, one other point that I think should be made is that the vitriol between students and neighbors is, for the most part, misplaced-- neighbors are attacking students when they can&#039;t access the University administration, and it&#039;s lowering the quality of life for EVERYONE in Burleith/West Georgetown-- students and neighbors alike. This is because the Campus Plan does, in a way, provide the only formalized impetus for community/University engagement that occurs in ten years. I understand why neighbors are frustrated with the University-- for all of the concessions the University has made for them (concessions that I think they don&#039;t appreciate enough, sometimes), they still live on a daily basis with the behavioral issues students living off-campus cause, and they&#039;re pretty helpless to change that. In the Neighbors vs. University fight, the University IS the bigger bully -- it has more money, more power, and more ability to move forward without truly consulting the residents. So, when the Campus Plan pops up every ten years, the vitriol and pent-up anger explodes tenfold, and the University is finally forced to formally recognize the neighbors&#039; complaints (holding community meetings for residents to discuss the Plan is a requisite to get it passed), which they may or may not spend the other nine years artfully dodging.

I don&#039;t think any student will offer a standing applause to the DeGoia administration -- Jack DeGoia is as unresponsive to our needs as yours, neighbors. Wireless all over campus? Better academic facilities for College and SFS students? More study space? More reliable Saferides on the weekends? More lenient alcohol policies on-campus to keep students from raging OFF-campus? These are all concerns we have, and we aren&#039;t thrilled with the University&#039;s response to them either. Ultimately, the neighbors want more from the University, and the students want more from the University, but because the University itself is so difficult to reach, the neighbors and the students are battling it out amongst one another. Yes, it&#039;s the students throwing loud parties on the weekend that you hate, but it&#039;s the University not providing greater disincentives for off-campus parties and/or better reasons to remain on-campus that you hate more. And students, it&#039;s the neighbors spouting off name-calling, disrespectful taunts at you that you hate, but it&#039;s the University that&#039;s driven the neighbors to resent you so much that you hate more.

So in this battle of &quot;who&#039;s treated the other guy worse,&quot; at least consider one thing -- if students AND neighbors demanded more from the University, we might ALL get somewhere. I can guarantee you, neighbors, that students don&#039;t like risking a run-in with MPD and the chance of getting a 61D on their record just to throw an off-campus party because on-campus parties are too often shut down. So maybe students targeting neighbors, and neighbors targeting students, in this case just isn&#039;t the most effective approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Moose and Eileen for such reasonable arguments.</p>
<p>As a student, one other point that I think should be made is that the vitriol between students and neighbors is, for the most part, misplaced&#8211; neighbors are attacking students when they can&#8217;t access the University administration, and it&#8217;s lowering the quality of life for EVERYONE in Burleith/West Georgetown&#8211; students and neighbors alike. This is because the Campus Plan does, in a way, provide the only formalized impetus for community/University engagement that occurs in ten years. I understand why neighbors are frustrated with the University&#8211; for all of the concessions the University has made for them (concessions that I think they don&#8217;t appreciate enough, sometimes), they still live on a daily basis with the behavioral issues students living off-campus cause, and they&#8217;re pretty helpless to change that. In the Neighbors vs. University fight, the University IS the bigger bully &#8212; it has more money, more power, and more ability to move forward without truly consulting the residents. So, when the Campus Plan pops up every ten years, the vitriol and pent-up anger explodes tenfold, and the University is finally forced to formally recognize the neighbors&#8217; complaints (holding community meetings for residents to discuss the Plan is a requisite to get it passed), which they may or may not spend the other nine years artfully dodging.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any student will offer a standing applause to the DeGoia administration &#8212; Jack DeGoia is as unresponsive to our needs as yours, neighbors. Wireless all over campus? Better academic facilities for College and SFS students? More study space? More reliable Saferides on the weekends? More lenient alcohol policies on-campus to keep students from raging OFF-campus? These are all concerns we have, and we aren&#8217;t thrilled with the University&#8217;s response to them either. Ultimately, the neighbors want more from the University, and the students want more from the University, but because the University itself is so difficult to reach, the neighbors and the students are battling it out amongst one another. Yes, it&#8217;s the students throwing loud parties on the weekend that you hate, but it&#8217;s the University not providing greater disincentives for off-campus parties and/or better reasons to remain on-campus that you hate more. And students, it&#8217;s the neighbors spouting off name-calling, disrespectful taunts at you that you hate, but it&#8217;s the University that&#8217;s driven the neighbors to resent you so much that you hate more.</p>
<p>So in this battle of &#8220;who&#8217;s treated the other guy worse,&#8221; at least consider one thing &#8212; if students AND neighbors demanded more from the University, we might ALL get somewhere. I can guarantee you, neighbors, that students don&#8217;t like risking a run-in with MPD and the chance of getting a 61D on their record just to throw an off-campus party because on-campus parties are too often shut down. So maybe students targeting neighbors, and neighbors targeting students, in this case just isn&#8217;t the most effective approach.</p>
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		<title>By: DR</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503439</link>
		<dc:creator>DR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim, great post - in fact, a former president of the Citizens Association of Georgetown, Bill Cochran, once stated that some neighborhood activists didn&#039;t want better relations with GU because, if it happened, then &quot;they&#039;re out of business. They&#039;ve got their evil empire.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, great post &#8211; in fact, a former president of the Citizens Association of Georgetown, Bill Cochran, once stated that some neighborhood activists didn&#8217;t want better relations with GU because, if it happened, then &#8220;they&#8217;re out of business. They&#8217;ve got their evil empire.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503436</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And yet another student—the strangely named &quot;Moose&quot;—makes a coherent, logical, well-balanced argument. Will any of the neighbors respond in kind? Absolutely not. 

Why? Because secretly, they are less mature, less intelligent, and less willing to achieve a peaceful solution than the students.

Why? Because without the &quot;evil University&quot; to oppose, most of them live ordinary, dull, run-of-the-mill lives, and this whole battle of wills gives them a good reason to wake up in the morning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet another student—the strangely named &#8220;Moose&#8221;—makes a coherent, logical, well-balanced argument. Will any of the neighbors respond in kind? Absolutely not. </p>
<p>Why? Because secretly, they are less mature, less intelligent, and less willing to achieve a peaceful solution than the students.</p>
<p>Why? Because without the &#8220;evil University&#8221; to oppose, most of them live ordinary, dull, run-of-the-mill lives, and this whole battle of wills gives them a good reason to wake up in the morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Ha Ha</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503432</link>
		<dc:creator>Ha Ha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 15:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...now it all makes sense, the residents are blaming the GU students for the nationwide housing bubble burst!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;now it all makes sense, the residents are blaming the GU students for the nationwide housing bubble burst!</p>
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		<title>By: Moose</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503428</link>
		<dc:creator>Moose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 07:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@old man
Yes, the market price would decrease only temporarily... just like home values all around the United States are doing right now in the worst recession ever. I&#039;m sure there&#039;s a lot of people that are eligible for those 800,000 loans that the banks aren&#039;t giving out anymore.

About the meeting, first of all, I&#039;m ashamed of all of you University plan supporters who didn&#039;t make the trip up to Duke Ellington, there wasn&#039;t the turn-out I expected at all.

I sat through the whole thing and it was everything I expected: ANC chairmen being on the side of the residents, neighborhood representatives acting as if that this campus plan passed it was equitable to their death sentences (I thought Ms. Rubino was going to cry), and the university being as non-confrontational and passive as possible in hopes that they will appease the insatiable resident representatives.

I thought the implications that Georgetown wanted to increase enrollment to help their endowment were ridiculous. Provost O&#039;Donnell joked &quot;I would never say flat out that that wasn&#039;t the case&quot; which allowed everyone to jump on the University for it. As one of the residents pointed out, the University is only adding graduate school programs which are actually a money sink for the University. So I think that that implication is a little ridiculous. Secondly, I thought the residents accusing the university of &quot;secretly&quot; adding undergrads by changing how they counted students was almost as ridiculous. Even the ANC chairperson said that he thought the system was better, but he didn&#039;t go as far as to help Mr. Olson describe how it was more inclusive. Finally Messieurs Olson, O&#039;Donnell and the Vice President should have been a little more aware of what the statistics were to answer the questions more fully.

I am intrigued that the university essentially refused to answer why the 600 bed future medical school building couldn&#039;t be used as a dorm. I suspect it&#039;s because they know that if they explained that if it were a dorm then it could never be a hospital and then a new hospital could never be built on campus.

I&#039;m not sure why everyone is making a stink about the turn-around. You&#039;d need x-ray vision to see through forests and hills in order to see the road from anywhere outside of Georgetown University. As far as whether it violates the easement (which Georgetown firmly claims it doesn&#039;t), then DDOT and/or the National Park service will strike it down, so there is no need to bring it up six times during this neighborhood meeting. In addition, residents need to give us something: if you want both less cars driving to Georgetown and students living farther away from campus you need to allow us to increase bus service and make the routs more direct or visa versa. I know it&#039;s a cliche, but work WITH us not merely against us.

I meant to ask Ms. Altemus why she claimed the 1789 block wasn&#039;t part of the university&#039;s campus, but why she considers Nevils, that she lived in, to be on-campus. Residents, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, but isn&#039;t behind a 200 year old brickwall, it&#039;s still a duck!

That being said, I went home that night and I had problems getting to sleep thanks to my neighbors across the street who are the types of students that are causing this campus plan to be contested so much. Personally, I think the university should be a little light on first and second time (maybe third time) offenders but after that REALLY throw the book at them: work hours, probation, study abroad, and after the fifth or sixth or seventh time expulsion should seriously be considered.

Fellow students, please be cleaner and more considerate.  I feel that the fact that this simple plea hasn&#039;t been answered is the deepest cause for this whole issue.

Residents, I implore you to look at how the university affects you personally, both the pros and the cons. I am with you on controlling the out of control parties, the public drunkenness and the trash (I think I differ a little about the definition of &quot;out of control&quot; but probably not by much). But on the other hand, Georgetown University is an incredible benefit to you: a hospital, local sports teams, a gym, free bus service to Dupont and Rosslyn, a library, green space, and a wonderful view of Healy (sorry about Lauinger). If you think that this plan will truly be a detriment to your lives, then I support your decision to oppose the plan. If not please consider supporting the plan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@old man<br />
Yes, the market price would decrease only temporarily&#8230; just like home values all around the United States are doing right now in the worst recession ever. I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a lot of people that are eligible for those 800,000 loans that the banks aren&#8217;t giving out anymore.</p>
<p>About the meeting, first of all, I&#8217;m ashamed of all of you University plan supporters who didn&#8217;t make the trip up to Duke Ellington, there wasn&#8217;t the turn-out I expected at all.</p>
<p>I sat through the whole thing and it was everything I expected: ANC chairmen being on the side of the residents, neighborhood representatives acting as if that this campus plan passed it was equitable to their death sentences (I thought Ms. Rubino was going to cry), and the university being as non-confrontational and passive as possible in hopes that they will appease the insatiable resident representatives.</p>
<p>I thought the implications that Georgetown wanted to increase enrollment to help their endowment were ridiculous. Provost O&#8217;Donnell joked &#8220;I would never say flat out that that wasn&#8217;t the case&#8221; which allowed everyone to jump on the University for it. As one of the residents pointed out, the University is only adding graduate school programs which are actually a money sink for the University. So I think that that implication is a little ridiculous. Secondly, I thought the residents accusing the university of &#8220;secretly&#8221; adding undergrads by changing how they counted students was almost as ridiculous. Even the ANC chairperson said that he thought the system was better, but he didn&#8217;t go as far as to help Mr. Olson describe how it was more inclusive. Finally Messieurs Olson, O&#8217;Donnell and the Vice President should have been a little more aware of what the statistics were to answer the questions more fully.</p>
<p>I am intrigued that the university essentially refused to answer why the 600 bed future medical school building couldn&#8217;t be used as a dorm. I suspect it&#8217;s because they know that if they explained that if it were a dorm then it could never be a hospital and then a new hospital could never be built on campus.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why everyone is making a stink about the turn-around. You&#8217;d need x-ray vision to see through forests and hills in order to see the road from anywhere outside of Georgetown University. As far as whether it violates the easement (which Georgetown firmly claims it doesn&#8217;t), then DDOT and/or the National Park service will strike it down, so there is no need to bring it up six times during this neighborhood meeting. In addition, residents need to give us something: if you want both less cars driving to Georgetown and students living farther away from campus you need to allow us to increase bus service and make the routs more direct or visa versa. I know it&#8217;s a cliche, but work WITH us not merely against us.</p>
<p>I meant to ask Ms. Altemus why she claimed the 1789 block wasn&#8217;t part of the university&#8217;s campus, but why she considers Nevils, that she lived in, to be on-campus. Residents, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, but isn&#8217;t behind a 200 year old brickwall, it&#8217;s still a duck!</p>
<p>That being said, I went home that night and I had problems getting to sleep thanks to my neighbors across the street who are the types of students that are causing this campus plan to be contested so much. Personally, I think the university should be a little light on first and second time (maybe third time) offenders but after that REALLY throw the book at them: work hours, probation, study abroad, and after the fifth or sixth or seventh time expulsion should seriously be considered.</p>
<p>Fellow students, please be cleaner and more considerate.  I feel that the fact that this simple plea hasn&#8217;t been answered is the deepest cause for this whole issue.</p>
<p>Residents, I implore you to look at how the university affects you personally, both the pros and the cons. I am with you on controlling the out of control parties, the public drunkenness and the trash (I think I differ a little about the definition of &#8220;out of control&#8221; but probably not by much). But on the other hand, Georgetown University is an incredible benefit to you: a hospital, local sports teams, a gym, free bus service to Dupont and Rosslyn, a library, green space, and a wonderful view of Healy (sorry about Lauinger). If you think that this plan will truly be a detriment to your lives, then I support your decision to oppose the plan. If not please consider supporting the plan.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kenchelian</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503427</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kenchelian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 06:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Old man,
In the long run, then, you all should have an incentive to increase the standard of living from abysmal to alright. Furthermore, you should have an incentive to stop renting to students. So why don&#039;t we just let everything play out?
Furthermore, Jack Evans has no clue what the EPA would and would not have done. Not to mention the fact that one of the sides arguing the case of the smokestack has concrete scientific evidence on its side, as well as knowledgeable people on the topic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Old man,<br />
In the long run, then, you all should have an incentive to increase the standard of living from abysmal to alright. Furthermore, you should have an incentive to stop renting to students. So why don&#8217;t we just let everything play out?<br />
Furthermore, Jack Evans has no clue what the EPA would and would not have done. Not to mention the fact that one of the sides arguing the case of the smokestack has concrete scientific evidence on its side, as well as knowledgeable people on the topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Old man</title>
		<link>http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2011/01/21/campus-plan-update-anc-special-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-503420</link>
		<dc:creator>Old man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jan 2011 01:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/?p=25025#comment-503420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Asuka, 

San Francisco? A wonderful city. 

You should move there. It might mellow you out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asuka, </p>
<p>San Francisco? A wonderful city. </p>
<p>You should move there. It might mellow you out.</p>
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